Moeller, Chapin, Sports, Pain etc...

[donu]

Originally posted by Dazzler:

As for that joker Dom Famularo, don't get me started!! I always find it worrying when someone imparts information and yet doesn't actually play/record themselves. Let me ask you a question: How many of the drummers on this board have a recording of Dom playing with a band? I've seen his video clips on the Vic Firth site and his playing is a joke! It's extremely technical and mechanical, like a robot. He has no conecpt of feel and never uses the word MUSIC. For him it's all about drumming. It's all very well travelling the world saying 'this is how it should be done', but why doesn't he gig?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you agree that Dom Famaularo book "It's Your Move" is a Essential book for understand in deep Moeller stroke And how to use it for accent ? : he explain what George Stone forget to write on his "Accents & Rebounds" book to use it properly ?

[Tom Hipskind]

All very good points here, and I totally agree with what seems to be the consensus that there are varying degrees of how we define "pain". A little bit is probably okay, as long as it doesn't turn into anything major. We all need to gauge that for ourselves. A bit more to my point: I did a yoga class last week (highly recommended to fellow drummers, btw! [img]wink.gif[/img] ) and the instructor made that same distinction between something, say, a position or a stretch, feeling "a bit intense" (which is okay, even good!) and being downright "painful" (bad. [img]mad.gif[/img] ).

I know that if I warm up on a pad, for 10-20 minutes before playing a gig, (especially on hard-playing gigs!) I play with so, so, SO much less tension in my body--especially my hands, than when I don't. I also find that stretching helps me immensely as well!

Another interesting thought: I discovered not too long ago that after a particularly hard-playing gig, if my hands are a little sore it helps to run them under cold water, or as was the case with me one evening, in a cooler full of ice and water (though only for a couple of seconds). It seems to cool any swelling and relax the muscles, and feels really good!

-Tom

[hanayalator]

Cool topic. I think that there are 2 different ways to playing... You have the really relaxed and loose/using rebound thing (gruber and weckl), and then you have the more muscular and forced approach (like dennis for example). Yes, dennis still plays relaxed, and yes weckl can still play muscular, but there 2 different ways to approach it. I think vinnie talks about it in one of his clinic bootlegs, something about how playing a figure, and then playing that figure a little forced with a bit of tension in the arms can produce a totally different sound and feeling... Also, I think there's a difference between 'getting tendonitis pain' and 'building muscle pain' (like from a pillow or something). You gotta know where to draw the line. About athletes, yes drumming is very physically involved, but maybe you're just thinking about the totally ripped guys walking around. There's also the thin and tall long distance runners and the very light weight lifters that lift 3 times their own weight....they're athletes too, so I think that it's fine to see drummers of different shapes and sizes (I don't think anyone will question Erskine's speed for example). As for Dom, I think he has some good points, and his free vids are cool. You don't have to be a great player to be a great teacher. Hockey coaches do it all the time, and just because someone is a great player, doesn't mean they're a great teacher. Actually, I don't think I've ever heard a clip of Gruber playing...

[FuseU1]

if my hands are a little sore it helps to run them under cold water, or as was the case with me one evening, in a cooler full of ice and water (though only for a couple of seconds). It seems to cool any swelling and relax the muscles, and feels really good

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've heard other pros say this AW, altho I personally have never done it.

if I warm up on a pad, for 10-20 minutes before playing a gig, (especially on hard-playing gigs!) I play with so, so, SO much less tension in my body--especially my hands, than when I don't. I also find that stretching helps me immensely as well

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AbsoLUTEly.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 16, 2004 01:32 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[diddle]

If my muscles burn when I'm practicing or playing, it just means I'm building muscle and
strength. I don't consider it pain. If I start to burn, I continue and HOLD that burning
sensation until I?m reasonably satisfied or tired... This (to me) is a fundamental of
building chops.

But...

If I get a numb, tingly, sharp or stabbing feeling somewhere then I know I'm doing
something wrong.

Often I find that the mental part of learning and growing can be as painful as the physical.
I read somewhere once that Bill Evans said that playing with Miles was not only
physically painful, but emotionally and spiritually as well because he constantly pushed
him to another level.

[PocketPlayer]

Hey...I had to add a little Jeff on this topic, right? We're not alone here...

JP:I always have insecurities about my hands cramping up. They used to a lot, and still do once in awhile. All my fingers would cramp and shut tight. You couldn't pry them apart. When I went on the road with Steely Dan, I went nuts! Toward the end of the show my hands would be twitching. I sweat heavy so I would hold on to the sticks too tight, then I would cramp. I started shaving the lacquer off my sticks, and that helped. I have small hands and they hurt after I play because I hit so hard. It's just something in my heart; it feels better to play hard and really kick it out. I'm always nervous before going on stage. I'll try to warm up and talk to myself and stuff, but that hasn't done a lot for me over the years. On the last tour, I finally found my groove. After every show, I soak my arms in a big bucket of ice water. It kills me at first, but then it feels great. It's the same thing baseball pitchers do. The swelling goes down. The next day I wouldn't be tight or my bones wouldn't ache. Also, for that last four years I've had sticks made where they just dip the tip and the shoulder taper in lacquer only. Nothing much slips out of my hands now.

When it comes right down to it...wisdom comes from those that do, that have paved the road over time. One thing great about MD interviews is listening to working drummers share about the craft. A Vinnie instructional DVD would be insane, and I'd like to do the interview portion--4 hours of Q&A (hey that's a good thread, questions you'ld like to ask Vinnie!). Billy Ward purposely didn't spend a lot of time on specifc grips, but discussed in general terms.

[Tom Hipskind]

Yeah, JP's quote about soaking his arms in a buchet of ice water is right on! It's a great remedy, especially if you've been playing hard (though definitely NOT a substitute for loose, relaxed playing!).

As far as a Vinnie instructional video, it ain't gonna happen. I've asked him many times, and he just doesn't want to do it. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] But when I begged and pleaded with him, he seemed to leave the door about 1% open. So, who knows?

[FuseU1]

Vinnie's gonna DO it.
Keep telling ourselves. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Let's get the collective HOD vibe/aura goin' on it...we'll "covertly" VIBE him into doing it... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I'm hoping he'll eventually entertain doing one, as he gets older...NTM from the "pressure" of being one of the baddest mofros out there... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Back to topic, stretching your wrists & forearms with the sticks like guys such as Rod M does is great b4 your shows, & even in between each set. Where you take hold of each end of the sticks [together, side by side] w both hands [on either end] & twist them & your wrists "backwards," or invertedly, for lack of better descriptn...or hold both sticks parallel together in front of you in 1 hand by their butt ends [at the top/thumb part of the hand, palm down], tip ends pointing out of the hand & away from your torso, & take the tip ends in the other hand & pull upwards toward you...these help stretch & loosen the wrists & forearm muscles...at first this may be a little difficult or awkward, until you get used to it...[I just knew I couldnt describe that well enough]...yeah, yeah, whatever you say, broski... \:c/

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 19, 2004 08:09 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Tom Hipskind]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuze..............

You a funny mofro!

[img]cool.gif[/img]